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philreckless
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 One of Them - 2004/03/17 00:51 OK, while I'm on a roll, and with the aim of not letting the topica police accuse us of only OT stuff, what do 'we' think about the 'N' word in this song.
Who was it that used it as a lesson of anti-racism at their child's school?
Has anyone had any problems with audiences when it's been performed? (Didn't Jake suffer a walk out from some ignorant students, once?).
Does anyone else perform it?
For me, it's an integral part of the song - if you get rid of it you would also have to change to things like 'non-non-disabled people', and 'travellers with ethnicity', etc.
?
Phil www.philmcginity.co.uk
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claresdad
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 Re:One of Them - 2004/03/17 05:29 It's a little like the Dr Hook song, If Not You, where they sing "who's gonna iron my shirt" in a verse with the chorus "who if not you". The feminists and their supporters lambasted this whereas the point is that the singer is totally dependant on the woman that he loves and it is a very meaning love song. You either get it or you don't.

There is too much political correctness about nowadays.

How on earth would you fit Person of Afro-Caribbean origin into the song? and more to the point I don't know any black people who would like to be called that. We all use terms that could be considered offensive in every day language. In the film East is East there is the line " I don't want to marry a paki" from one of the lead (Asian) characters. From his lips how can that be deemed to be offensive?

The N word stays. Let it be so

Hugs and kisses

Dave

PS

Stuff those miserable "B's" on Topica. They are probably training to be Local Authority Traffic Wardens
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Malcy
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 Re:One of Them - 2004/03/17 07:54 I've got a couple of views on this. Firstly, in my reading of "One Of Them" Jake is lampooning the tellers of insensitive and divisive jokes by quoting them. If you get the point of the song, you'll get the concurrent point that it isn't the singer that's saying the words as part of his own expression, and it's the targets of the song's criticism you should be cross at.

Secondly, about Political Correctness (or, "The Language of Cowardice" as the Big Yin said). One of my heroes is Tom Lehrer, whose songs are still surprisingly shocking after nearly 50 years. He said recently "The nature of forbidden words has certainly changed. For example, when I was in college, there were certain words you couldn't say in front of a girl. Now you can say them, but you can't say 'girl.'" Eranu !
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Judith
Admin

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 Re:One of Them - 2004/03/17 11:18 I agree, the names in question are the essence of the song, they get you focussed right on the prejudice Jake's pointing his finger at. If you changed them the song would lose the sharpness of its cutting edge. It's quite different from changing the word 'screw' which nowadays has a different meaning.

Perhaps in the p-c world of today it is more difficult for audiences to recognise the song as a piece of social comment of its time - you could maybe say something about that in an intro.
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KeithD
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 Re:One of Them - 2004/03/17 12:57 No, you can't change the words of One of Them without making it lose its point -- unless you replace them with current and similarly offensive words: "Have you heard the one - the one about the Paki? . . . The spastic and the weirdo, the nutter and the gay-boy".

The whole point, as Malcy points out, is that you first quote the offensive (I hope) joke about those who are considered sufficiently different to be derided and then point up the inherent fallacy.

Alf Garnet springs to mind.

It's worth saying that when Jake wrote this song, "nigger" was already an offensive word or else he wouldn't have used it; the passage of time is not an explanation or excuse. Nowadays it is used as a "badge of pride" by certain radical American "persons of colour" (the most idiotic of all PC phrases IMHO), such as the group Niggaz With Attitude (NWA) and some rappers (not just gangsta rappers either) such as Dr Dre. This is similar to the adoption in the '80s of "queer" as a badge of pride by some militant homosexual males.

Sing the song as it is, or don't sing it at all.

Judith's idea of an intro is worth considering, but do it carefully because, firstly, if the song needs explaining the audience won't get it anyway, and, secondly you could pull all its teeth if you explained too much. I would suggest no more than: "This song includes parody; if it bothers you initially, give it time".

Nice Lehrer quote, Malcy! But I seem to have seen it, or something very similar, a long time ago.

Phil's point about the students booing and walking out (Newcastle Uni, from memory) reminds me of a dinner I attended where the after-dinner speaker, who was a past High Sheriff of Glasgow (a judge), told a story about a criminal who he branded "a fecund liar", only to be booed by two of the audience (graduate chartered accountants to a man). They had to continue sitting there, knowing they'd shown themselves to be ignorant prats
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aliasmacalias
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 Re:One of Them - 2004/03/17 19:49 Sheriff of Glasgow (a judge), told a story
about a criminal who he branded "a fecund liar",

Indeed but you missed the response of the defendant thus:

"You are a fecund liar"
"No ah'm fecun' not"

Also attributed to Sherrif Smith in Hamilton Sherrif Court

Ian I got boogie, boogie, in my socks
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